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 Stargazer and the future problems.

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T O P I C    R E V I E W
scotsman Posted - 29/11/2010 : 23:36:57
Hi everyone,
I have been asked to write a thread her about Stargazer, I am not the Guru for Stargazer but I have done my homework.
I am a Scotsman but have been living in Germany since 1989 so please forgive any grammatical mistakes

Stargazer is a recessivley inhereited Gene mutation, it causes Neurological disruptions in a Corn Snake. A Stargazer Corn tends to look into the Sky hence the name "Stargazer", if a Stargazer Corn gets excited then the effect seems to get bigger the more excited it is, this can even lead to a Corn "falling" onto its back and it will keep crawling on its back. To look at such a Corn is heart breaking for every Corn lover, but it doesn't seem to affect thier life quality, it seems they have no pain or discomfort due to the Gene.
Stargazer Corns eat, shed, poop quite normally (possibly a bit more, or more spread about pooping than non stargazers), but sadly they can also breed just as normal corns do. Which means everyone who has a Stargazer Corn, or thinks they have a Stargazer Corn, please don't use it for Breeding projects!
The main problem with the Gene is how it is inherited, it is exactly the same as Amelanistic or Anerythristic, which means you can get Corns that are het for Stargazer. No matter what you have heard up to date, there are no "Symptoms" visible by a het Stargazer Corn, they have no abnormal behaviour, so any breeder that says "there are no symptoms for Stargazer" has no idea what he is talking about!
The Gene was discovered by Kathy Love in the early 1990s, from the same line, at the same time as she discovered Sunkissed, this would be a reason for everyone to say "Sunkissed and Stargazer are connected", this is true. But thanks to a few greedy or careless breeders, the Gene has been crossed out to just about every other gene there is. **************************
The only reasonable way to test at the moment is Breeding tests, many breeders don't want to do this because they will "lose" 1 or 2 years time in comparison to the other Breeders, this is nonsense. I am a breeder and I only want to pass on Corns that I know are healthy and have no possible "side affects".
Sadly not all Breeding tests are not 100% certain.
If you use a known het Stargazer to test a poss het Stargazer, then there needs to be a minimum of 16 eggs, when they all hatch and no Stargazer hatches then the chance is that the tested Corn is 99% Stargazer free. This is different if you use a hom. Stargazer to test, the amount of hatchlings is greatly reduced then, but 100% certainty is never given. If you ask me 99% certainty is still better than putting blinkers on to the problem, which many breeders do.
Check all the forums you know and look at any Stargazer comments, I bet there are at least 1 Breeder that says "I have bred Sunkissed for years, also crossed parents and offspring, I have never had a Stargazer", this may be true, but it proves nothing!!!!!
Male Sunkissed het Stargazer X Female Sunkissed non Stargazer
all hatchlings will be Sunkissed 50% poss het Stargazer
If I cross a male hatchling to its mother, it doesn'T matter if the hatchling is het Stargazer or not, there will be no Stargazers in the clutch because the mother is not het, but all the hatchlings frm the clutch are poss het Stargazer, because it is not known.
This is a mistake that lots of Breeders are making at the moment, how many breeders have said at some point "it was a surprise that Amel was in there", it is exactly the same with Stargazer, only Stargazer is not a welcome surprise.
Stargazer is a problem, it will get bigger and bigger over the next few years, please don't shut your eyes to it!

Thank you for reading.

Editted to avoid libel.
20   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
gmac Posted - 03/06/2012 : 18:19:51
Georgina Posted - 03/06/2012 : 18:18:26
is kathy love also working to reduce the gazers out there? x
gmac Posted - 03/06/2012 : 18:17:16
it was first found in Kathy loves okeettee sunkissed lines and then yes bred into about everythng else, not by Kathy Love I add
AcidicAngel Posted - 03/06/2012 : 18:13:13
Ah, I must have got mixed up. Sorry about that :)
Georgina Posted - 03/06/2012 : 18:11:24
am i right in think gmac that it was first found in sunkissed? and then when people started breeding them is crossed over in to other morphs x
gmac Posted - 03/06/2012 : 18:09:29
Georgina doesnt own a gazer, i do. but not through choice it is to test my sunkissed line corns to see if they are gazer free or carrying the gene.

as does every other breeder that is testing for stargazer in their collections
AcidicAngel Posted - 03/06/2012 : 18:02:43
Oh, I thought you owned one? Or was that someone else?
Georgina Posted - 03/06/2012 : 18:02:06
i do not own a sg, i am no where near experienced enought to own one.
AcidicAngel Posted - 03/06/2012 : 17:59:54

This is the video just to show how bad stargazers are affected...

@Georgina - I know I was just saying that I don't get why people find these fascinating... I know you own one and I'm not saying that you shouldn't as it's your choice but if someone offered me one for free I'd still say no...
Georgina Posted - 03/06/2012 : 17:47:20
it is normal in america to feed live, it was probs a vid from the states
AcidicAngel Posted - 03/06/2012 : 17:43:22
Originally posted by Georgina

Originally posted by AcidicAngel

I have another photo of a Stargazer Corn but it isn't my corn... Am I aloud to post it just to show what it can do as I completely disagree with it...

what do you mean disagree with it?
breeding and selling?

Yes. I find it horrible that this neurological mutation in corns is bred and sold.

There's a video on youtube of one being fed a live mouse which it takes forever to find and then it doesn't even constrict it, just bites the head and starts eating.
Georgina Posted - 03/06/2012 : 15:55:38
its a start :)

thats what i mean, start now with the sg free ones you know of :)
gmac Posted - 03/06/2012 : 15:45:16
nope as we dont know what ones are SG free, very few have been tested in Europe and in the UK, the SG issue is only going to get worse over the next few year though.

I do know a few folks that have SG free corns prevously tested, that is Scotsman, who wrote this thread, Special Corns (Johan van der Dussen / Neils) in Germaan and Holland respectively, also Adam Clark (Procorns) and myself if the UK all have tested animals. gazer free.
Georgina Posted - 03/06/2012 : 15:35:35
Its a shame there is no other way of testing for it :(

When we used to breed rabbits, we were part of a council and could only call them pedigrees if they had breeding history and then we rung them with an I'd code. Could there not be a way of setting up and number system with a certificate maybe proving that the corn is SG free? I know it would be hard, but it would be a starting point :)
gmac Posted - 03/06/2012 : 15:29:29
Originally posted by serena_08

So the SGs live a perfectly normal life?

I'm not sure if it's the look of helplessness or what but they are so cute! I'd love to own one, but the controversy around it means I obviously couldn't!

Yes they live a normal life, they need to be kept at the lower end of the temp scale so they dont waste too much energy and use up all the food energy so quicky.

They are not cute and no you wouldnt want to own one, it is the most distressing thing I have ever seen, this is why its such a big deal to get rid of this gene.

Would you really want a snake that corkscrews and literally has no control of itself every time you go near it, they never slow down and they never grow out of it.
Georgina Posted - 03/06/2012 : 14:24:39
This is just like deafness in dalmations, they are trying to breed it out :) sadley the process can sometimes seem cruel but its needed to create a SG free species x
serena_08 Posted - 03/06/2012 : 14:13:03
So the SGs live a perfectly normal life?

I'm not sure if it's the look of helplessness or what but they are so cute! I'd love to own one, but the controversy around it means I obviously couldn't!
gmac Posted - 03/06/2012 : 00:26:51
no its not through inbreeding
coxymk2 Posted - 03/06/2012 : 00:12:02
This may sound stupid but i have no knowledge of hets etc. But is this gene mutation similar to the problems caused by inbreeding that has happened in other animals due to unscrupulous breeders trying to get the perfect or new type of animal sub-species.
Georgina Posted - 02/06/2012 : 23:21:58
Originally posted by AcidicAngel

I have another photo of a Stargazer Corn but it isn't my corn... Am I aloud to post it just to show what it can do as I completely disagree with it...

what do you mean disagree with it?
breeding and selling?

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