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Sta~ple
qeeun speler
United Kingdom
6129 Posts |
 Posted - 29/03/2012 : 16:29:55
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| There are vet bills, electrics, water, none feeders, all kind of adds up to a lot more than you think sometimes specially if you can't sell them all staright away, some people have their hatchies for months on end. I'm sorry, people don't breed for money, there are some morons who think they can but they fail, and there not breeders in my eyes, they are just plain stupid. No doubt some breeders make a few hundred maybe profit becaue of what they are breeding, the put time and money into what they are doing, and your forgetting that the intial costs of the snakes and their set-ups. I hatched mine out as I wanted the experince and the fact I was going to keep some of them, not because of money, the money I got back did not cover the electric and food costs for me, the few I had took a lot of time, maybe it was because it was my first try and I didn't have everything planned 100% like I should of, who knows. In essense, you owning snakes is kind of your way of encouraging those breeders to breed more which you seem to hate so much? If I think if people were going to choose an animal to breed for money, their are a heck of a lot better choices out there than corns. |
   
A very special super, duper thanks for K :3 |
Edited by - Sta~ple on 29/03/2012 16:51:08 |
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Red123
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
2030 Posts |
Posted - 29/03/2012 : 16:59:19
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I understand what you are saying, but the fact that people keep alot of snakes and keep them in RUBS which are in alot of cases, not all, too small is close to cruelty. Its not a dig at anyone of this forum inparticular I know none of you persnonally. Even of they make no profit on breeding their snakes they are breeding to keep the vast quantities that they own. So the hatchlings are being produced purely for the upkeep of the other snakes and like I say the majority of these will be put into rescues, neglected and passed from one owner to another all their life. Four of the six snakes I own are ones that were not wanted for one reason or another.
I speak from personel experience. I use to breed rabbits had well over 50 at one time. Litter upon litter were produced and sold to shops and private buyers and boy do I regret doing this. People can be very nice when they are stood infront of you choosing which bunny they want, in alot of cases it does not continue having to go and rescue some of the rabbits I sold is not a nice experience. Needless to say I will never breed an animal again.
I do not have a problem with RUBS used in the correct way but most of the time this is not the case and they are used purely for our own benefit. |
Corn Snake
, 1.0.0 Amel (Stan),
Royal Pythons
1.0.0 Normal (Nigel)
1.0.0 Albino (Tony)
Boa Constrictor Imperator
0.1.0 (Agatha)Western Hognose
0.1.0 Normal (Stevie)
0.0.1 Schneider Skink (George)
1.0.0 Extreme Blonde Harlequin Crested Gecko (Bert)
4 GALS.
Tarantulas
Red Rump (B. Vagans) Jo.
Chaco Golden Knee (G. pulchripes) Charlie, Greenbottle Blue (C. cyaneopubescens) Gus, Honduran Curly Hair ( B. albopilosum) Titch, Mexican Fire Leg (B. boehmei), Salmon Pink Bird Eater(L. parahybana), Fort Hall Baboon (P. Lugardi) Blanche, Stout Leg Baboon (E. Pachypus) Graham, Chilean Rose (G. Rosea) Glen.
Border collie x (BoB), 2 Cats (Lucky & Dip), 17 Goldfish, and The Dubia Family |
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Mort13
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
5599 Posts |
Posted - 29/03/2012 : 18:02:27
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It may not be a dig at anyone off this forum in particular but if you are going to label people that use RUBS for their snakes as only keeping their animals for monetary gain or that they are close to cruel then people are going to get their backs up bearing in mind what you deem as too small is perfectly acceptable to the vast majority of keepers/breeders.
I myself use vivs and RUBS. I have 2 corns almost 2 years old in 64l RUBS with hides,branches vines,foliage the lot.....half of which isn't used as they do sod all!
I'm also thinking of breeding in the future,NOT for monetary gain,but for personal reasons and for the experience.....and would likely only do 1 or 2 pairings in a year so I have the time for the hatchies and more chance of getting a good home. All the snakes I own are with me for life and if I do bred I'll be more interested in the hatchies going to a good home than money.
If you bred litter upon litter of rabbits and regret it then fair enough,but don't judge every other breeder on that level. There are a lot of very good decent breeders that care immensely for their animals and the welfare of the animals they sell,some of which use this forum.. |
      
3.1.0 Corn snakes, 1.0.0 T-Albino Cape House Snake, 0.1.0 Western Hognose,
1.0.0 MBK, 0.1.0 Childrens Python, 1.0.0 Nicaraguan Dwarf Boas
0.0.1 Occelated Skink, 1.0.0 Leopard Gecko, 1.0.3 Tarantulas, 0.0.2 Damon diadema
1.0.0 C0ckatiel,
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gmac
The Scottish Admin
United Kingdom
5319 Posts |
Posted - 29/03/2012 : 19:09:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Red123
I understand what you are saying, but the fact that people keep alot of snakes and keep them in RUBS which are in alot of cases, not all, too small is close to cruelty. Its not a dig at anyone of this forum inparticular I know none of you persnonally. Even of they make no profit on breeding their snakes they are breeding to keep the vast quantities that they own. So the hatchlings are being produced purely for the upkeep of the other snakes and like I say the majority of these will be put into rescues, neglected and passed from one owner to another all their life. Four of the six snakes I own are ones that were not wanted for one reason or another.
I do not have a problem with RUBS used in the correct way but most of the time this is not the case and they are used purely for our own benefit.
You know what I actually find your comments laughable. You say you dont know any of us on the forum yet you claim most of the time those of US that use rubs use them incorrectly. Seriously I dont think you can claim that most of the reptile keepers dont use rubs correctly when you say you dont know an of us on here, this is only a tiny part of the community.
I make no profit from breeding my snakes, may break even on the pairs i breed but I have a much larger collection than breeders. Then to claim the majority of these snakes will be handed into rescue centres. Can you please post all your research into this as you have obviously carried out plenty to make these accusations, as they are accusations not comments. |
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claire_daz
Hatchling
United Kingdom
412 Posts |
Posted - 29/03/2012 : 19:48:55
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here here gmac well said
Can you please post all your research into this as you have obviously carried out plenty to make these accusations, as they are accusations not comments.
mort sta~ple and mamma
very valid comments |
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Red123
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
2030 Posts |
Posted - 29/03/2012 : 20:01:27
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It would seem that I have offended someone else now.
I will make a point in the future of stating whether it is an opinion or fact or accusation towards someone or some place etc. It seems odd that the people I am upsetting would appear to be those breeding their snakes or intending to breed in the future. As for research I would think it is common sense, you only have to look at websites for rescue centres trying to rehome snakes handed in or dumped on their doorsteps or traul through the for sale pages on various sites preloved/adtrader/freeads/petclassifieds/gumtree/reptiletrader/RFUK etc etc. with excuses of a new baby or got bored with the snakes, its not what I thought. It would be interesting if some sort of register could be kept for the sale of ALL reptiles so people could trace just where the snakes they sold are now.
cattNmo - If you are happy with yourself in keeping your corns in RUBS then go for it. After all it is personal choice and as long as you feel comfortable with it then thats up to you. |
Corn Snake
, 1.0.0 Amel (Stan),
Royal Pythons
1.0.0 Normal (Nigel)
1.0.0 Albino (Tony)
Boa Constrictor Imperator
0.1.0 (Agatha)Western Hognose
0.1.0 Normal (Stevie)
0.0.1 Schneider Skink (George)
1.0.0 Extreme Blonde Harlequin Crested Gecko (Bert)
4 GALS.
Tarantulas
Red Rump (B. Vagans) Jo.
Chaco Golden Knee (G. pulchripes) Charlie, Greenbottle Blue (C. cyaneopubescens) Gus, Honduran Curly Hair ( B. albopilosum) Titch, Mexican Fire Leg (B. boehmei), Salmon Pink Bird Eater(L. parahybana), Fort Hall Baboon (P. Lugardi) Blanche, Stout Leg Baboon (E. Pachypus) Graham, Chilean Rose (G. Rosea) Glen.
Border collie x (BoB), 2 Cats (Lucky & Dip), 17 Goldfish, and The Dubia Family |
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gmac
The Scottish Admin
United Kingdom
5319 Posts |
Posted - 29/03/2012 : 20:17:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Red123
It would seem that I have offended someone else now.
It seems odd that the people I am upsetting would appear to be those breeding their snakes or intending to breed in the future.
quote:
Originally posted by Red123
People keep snakes in RUBS so they can keep loads and breed them and try to make money from them. Most breeders will claim they break even or make very little if any but I know thats not the case.
Oh i wonder why I have been offended maybe the fact you dont know me and make these pointless claims that i make loads of money from corns and this is the only reason i breed my snakes. (have added the 2nd quoteto remind you what you said)
I will bow down to your obvious superior knowledge to the corn breeders as you obviously know them all and can make unsubstantiated comments like this. I know very few breeders that make money. And as for not knowing where my hatchies are, I do.
The majority of larger corn breeders out there, i know plenty so can comment, keep there snakes in rubs yes. The snakes they have are in bloody good shape well looked after. Thier snakes are healthy. so where is the problem?
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cattNmo
Hatchling
182 Posts |
Posted - 29/03/2012 : 20:18:23
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OMG did not mean to start this big a debate but since it's started I'll add to it. To say that just because I choice to house my corns in rubs I do nt care about them as much as those who use vivs is offensive. As with Gmac my corns needs are always my priority just because I don't show them off to every visitor to my house in a viv does not mean I don't care. Infact it means that when people ask me about them I have to get them out to show them off, allowing both handling and education for a none snake people (always a bonus) I also don't have a massive supply of end less money to be able to house 20+ snakes in there own reptile room else believe me I would. So yes I am looking for the best way to house a large number in a smaller space. Yes I intend to breed however money is the last reason (there are far better business ideas out there) yes I plan to breed higher end morphs for the satisfaction. People change more because they are harder to breed. My corns are not even 2 years old yet but I constantly find myself reading about breeding and te difficulties which can be involved. I suggest that if you don't like te idea of people breeding then you do not support the hobbie by buying any more corns.
Sorry if I have offended anybody. And sorry about any spelling/grammar (please don't even start in that)
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Three corns, a dog, a cat, 2 kids and a future husband, Yes its a MAD HOUSE in leicester area.
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gmac
The Scottish Admin
United Kingdom
5319 Posts |
Posted - 29/03/2012 : 20:22:50
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quote:
Originally posted by cattNmo
Sorry if I have offended anybody. And sorry about any spelling/grammar (please don't even start in that)
you havent offended anyone ;)
As for the spelling and grammer wasnt going to start on that but may now seen as you have brought it up lol |
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cattNmo
Hatchling
182 Posts |
Posted - 29/03/2012 : 20:37:10
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Can you tell I was on a rant, lol
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Three corns, a dog, a cat, 2 kids and a future husband, Yes its a MAD HOUSE in leicester area.
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eeji
The Morph Master
United Kingdom
4335 Posts |
Posted - 29/03/2012 : 21:44:22
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| @Red123 - please name me half a dozen hobby breeders who do well from breeding cornsnakes, I would seriously like to meet them and learn their secret. I would also like to know where you get your mice from too as £10 a year for an adult is very cheap. I would also like to know where my sports car is because we all know how rich breeding corns makes us - I must be doing it wrong. |
Forum - Guide to Cornsnake Morphs - Punnett Square Calculator - Breeder Directory
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Red123
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
2030 Posts |
Posted - 29/03/2012 : 22:00:27
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I maybe should of worded it differently. I do not see how any breeder can claim not to make money how ever much or little that may be I belive that I did not say they make thousands! I buy my mice from A & N and pay 38p for each mouse and feed fortnightly.
As for your sports car can't help there. Maybe Santa will bring you one. |
Corn Snake
, 1.0.0 Amel (Stan),
Royal Pythons
1.0.0 Normal (Nigel)
1.0.0 Albino (Tony)
Boa Constrictor Imperator
0.1.0 (Agatha)Western Hognose
0.1.0 Normal (Stevie)
0.0.1 Schneider Skink (George)
1.0.0 Extreme Blonde Harlequin Crested Gecko (Bert)
4 GALS.
Tarantulas
Red Rump (B. Vagans) Jo.
Chaco Golden Knee (G. pulchripes) Charlie, Greenbottle Blue (C. cyaneopubescens) Gus, Honduran Curly Hair ( B. albopilosum) Titch, Mexican Fire Leg (B. boehmei), Salmon Pink Bird Eater(L. parahybana), Fort Hall Baboon (P. Lugardi) Blanche, Stout Leg Baboon (E. Pachypus) Graham, Chilean Rose (G. Rosea) Glen.
Border collie x (BoB), 2 Cats (Lucky & Dip), 17 Goldfish, and The Dubia Family |
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danny
Hatchling
United Kingdom
369 Posts |
Posted - 30/03/2012 : 00:31:23
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| :)dejavu havent been around for a while ive been missing out :) |
1x staffy-Roxy
I x iguana-zilla
Several tessera corns
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Cypher
Snake Mite
Australia
18 Posts |
Posted - 30/03/2012 : 03:52:49
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| I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry at the uproar I've started...? |
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Cypher
Snake Mite
Australia
18 Posts |
Posted - 30/03/2012 : 06:21:48
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I kinda get the impression that Rubs & stacking containers to keep creatures in came more from scientific research/experiments in labs.
Then commercial breeders found it practical before it became a mainstream habitat with reptile suppliers...
I'm posting from Australia & whether I go in a petshop or browse locally online, 80% of the enclosures available (at a reasonable price) are glass vivs &/or wooden custom-made cabinets.
It's only when I pick up a reptile magazine that's been published o/seas (US, UK) that I notice suppliers for Rubs & containers are the norm.
Whereas a corn snake may be comfortable in a decent size Rub, these magazine ads show pythons housed in stacked containers regardless of their size or the fact that they're tree dwelling & not suitable to ground conditions. |
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Sta~ple
qeeun speler
United Kingdom
6129 Posts |
Posted - 30/03/2012 : 09:13:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Cypher
I'm posting from Australia & whether I go in a petshop or browse locally online, 80% of the enclosures available (at a reasonable price) are glass vivs &/or wooden custom-made cabinets.
It's only when I pick up a reptile magazine that's been published o/seas (US, UK) that I notice suppliers for Rubs & containers are the norm.
I'm wondering if this is because of in terms of generally animal keeping, Austalia has strict laws? I don't know the info 100%, I'm just going on what my friend from Australia told me when she saw my cornsnakes but aren't bigger snakes like carpet pythons more widely avaiable as pets their, than corns and other smaller imported snakes due to the alien snakes needing a liscense. Because of them normal pets being bigger, RUBs and TUBs would not be great for them as adults? |
A very special super, duper thanks for K :3 |
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claire_daz
Hatchling
United Kingdom
412 Posts |
Posted - 30/03/2012 : 09:17:45
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cypher
you did not start this uproar ......
when you posted your reply you were polite |
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Cypher
Snake Mite
Australia
18 Posts |
Posted - 30/03/2012 : 09:49:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Sta~ple
[
I'm wondering if this is because of in terms of generally animal keeping, Austalia has strict laws? I don't know the info 100%, I'm just going on what my friend from Australia told me when she saw my cornsnakes but aren't bigger snakes like carpet pythons more widely avaiable as pets their, than corns and other smaller imported snakes due to the alien snakes needing a liscense. Because of them normal pets being bigger, RUBs and TUBs would not be great for them as adults?
[/quote]
Yes, Australia has strict laws. In that sense, corns are considered an "exotic" & therefore illegal to keep. But suffice to say, there's a lot of "underground" breeders that offer a wide selection to choose from...
It's difficult finding a "right" vet who'll turn a blind eye when you need to take the corn in for a check-up also.
I'm not sure if you need a permit but yes, we need to apply for a license first before we can buy a reptile. Different class permits for different native species. NSW is also the only state not allowed to sell/display reptiles publicly in pet shops yet they stock all the supplies needed for them.
So yeah, maybe it's a cultural thing. Due to the size of the reptiles here, suppliers are opting more towards glass vivs & custom wooden cabinets. |
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Rub sizes
