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Kellog
the nice one
United Kingdom
7308 Posts |
 Posted - 11/03/2014 : 08:25:29
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I'm glad she seems to be 'happy' exploring her viv. Must be nice for you to get her in there.
A few points. Firstly, and most importantly, PLEASE take out the tape you've used to stick the paper towel down. I know you say it's stuck securely but it's just not worth the risk. Snakes and tape don't go together, as this shows - http://www.thecornsnake.co.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=24916 Your substrate contains some dust which can work its way under the tape, no matter how well stuck down it is, and that will loosen it. It just isn't worth the risk.
Normally you wouldn't need to worry about your snake coming into contact with the heatmat, because it would be controlled by a thermostat and you'd have it set at a temperature the snake could handle. Lots of people don't bother covering their mats, except with a small sprinkling of substrate. Personally I have vinyl slate tiles over mine and then they are weighed down with heavy hides so there is no risk of the snakes going underneath, although again this shouldn't be an issue if the mat is controlled properly as long as the snake can't get trapped under there.
With a normal set-up, where you have a heatmat controlled by a separate thermostat, you'd be able to tweak the thermostat until you were getting the temperature you wanted in the viv but this isn't possible with yours. It is concerning that you're getting temps over 30oC. If it seems that that is regularly happening I'd urge you to change the heatmat for one you can control. Yes, your snake can move to the cool end to escape the heat but they don't feel it like we do and often aren't aware of how warm/hot things are. I think I'm right in saying that temps that high for too long can cause neurological issues.
I have a temp gun as well as digital thermometers and I must admit that I found the gun very frustrating. I was getting different temps from different parts of the heatmats and often it was very different to what my digital thermometers were saying, I do still use it occasionally but actually trust my thermometers more.
I'm very glad that you are getting better temps for her but am still concerned about this particular mat.
Xxx
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SilverWings
Yearling
United Kingdom
740 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2014 : 10:47:07
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| The issue I have with heat mats is that they can indeed be different temperatures in different areas. I was moving around our king snakes tank the other day and put a new hide in on top of the mat (this left half the mat with just substrate and half covered by the hide). Checked the temps before letting her loose, the side with just substrate was the right temps but the side under the floor of the hide was a whopping 45C!! I checked under the floor of the hide because I know the king loves to get under anything she can, and I'm glad I did. I didn't think a thin piece of plastic could cause such a huge difference. Now I've made sure the stat probes are under or in the hides, I'd hate to think what might have happened to Boots if I hadn't checked where I did o.O |
2.2.3 Corn snakes; Red, Rosie, Liana, Checkers, Luna, Diego, Snowman
1.0 Taiwanese Beauty Snake; Aleron
1.0 Green Anoles; Doug
1.0 Greyhound; Lee |
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Drew81
Snake Mite
United Kingdom
17 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2014 : 14:59:37
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My heat mat certainly does appear to be a bit of a mystery!
Unfortunately I was made redundant from my job just a few weeks back and whilst I am looking for work again I am not really in a position to afford a new mat and stat and am trying to make the best of what I have whilst obviously trying to ensure the well being of all the animals too.
With my heat mat, leaving aside what the thermometers and temps guns say, at any given time when the mat has been on and running for a while, if I touch it myself it is never actually HOT. Only WARM. It is the same with the other mats we have here in the house which are the same brand and model only in different sizes.
I tend to trust my temp gun more though than any of my thermometers. Especially so this particular thermometer in my snakes viv. It fluctuates wildly whereas my gun is more consistent. I have even checked different areas of the mat as suggested and it is still very consistent.
I looked in to the viv just now and my snake was curled up in her hide which is just above the heat mat. I moved the hide and the snake, uncovered the heat mat and checked the temps. Thermometer claimed it to be 37c while the gun claimed it to be 29c (checked the exact same spot the probe was on with gun). I then touched it myself and whilst a human hand can't detect the exact temp, I can certainly say without any doubt that it was nowhere near 37c! I appreciate that a snake would feel heat in a different way to a human but I know this mat never runs hot, only warm and never actually above 30c according to my gun. I use the same gun with my frogs, my dragons, my geckos, my chameleon and my other snakes and it always provides what I believe are consistent readings. I've never been keen on any of those digital probe thermometers as they do seem to fluctuate a lot and temps just don't jump so extremely like that.
So I don't really know what's going on with this thing and I can certainly see why and appreciate the fact you are all concerned by it. I just don't know what else to do though in the meantime except constantly monitor it like I'm doing until I can sort out a new one.
On a side note: This may not have any significance at all but thought it just worth a mention. I know that most heat mats on the market are those really thin ones where you can see the heat elements inside the clear plastic. This one I have, made by Swell, is very different in that it is much thicker and totally encased where you can't see the internals. Due to the thickness I am going to assume the internals could be very different to that of other heat mats. |
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Drew81
Snake Mite
United Kingdom
17 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2014 : 15:08:26
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| Sorry, meant to add to that about the tape in the viv. I honestly would never use tape in any viv whether it be snake or not except on this occasion it was the only way to properly secure the paper towel to the heat mat. As it is though it was literally one piece of tape wrapped around the flex of the heat mat where the flex joins to the actual mat so that it secures the paper towel. So if you can visualise what I mean, the bit of tape is around the base of the flex, completely flattened against it. I have made absolutely certain the tape has no gaps or any way for anything to get underneath it. Not even a piece of aspen. I know to you guys who can only go on my description that it may cause concern but I've seen what tape can do to snakes so you can be sure I have made certain this can't happen here. It's not the same as a piece of tape securing a wire to a wall where it leaves a tiny gap on each side of the wire allowing the snake to poke it's nose in and make the gap wider until it gets stuck in there. There is literally no way the snake can get under this tape. |
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Kellog
the nice one
United Kingdom
7308 Posts |
Posted - 13/03/2014 : 08:09:38
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I'm so sorry to hear about you losing your job. Tough times  .
It seems as though you are really on top of what's going on in her viv, which is good. I wanted to thank you for taking on board everything that's been said and suggested without taking offence. It's nice to offer support to someone who so obviously cares and is open to advice without going on the defensive.
Please let us know how your snakes are getting on. I'd be particularly interested in knowing if the constant shedding continues after this total change in her circumstances, now being housed alone and in her new viv.
Xxx
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Drew81
Snake Mite
United Kingdom
17 Posts |
Posted - 13/03/2014 : 16:58:12
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Thank you very much Kellog 
Whilst it's never fully possible to know what tone a message is written in, I like to think I'm pretty good at getting the point if it's written right. Everybody who has given me advice here has been very nice about it and I truly appreciate it. I also much rather people point out things if they think they need to rather than everyone just agreeing for the sake of it as that way nothing gets solved. For instance my original point in this thread was about my snake dying while in shed but the discussion led to heat mats after I had said which one mine was and noted the temps. People could very easily have overlooked that and not pointed it out and I would be carrying on thinking my heat mat is fine. Which we now know it isn't ideal but is at least safe enough in the interim.
If i'm willing enough to ask for advice then I am willing enough to listen to both advice and criticism where appropriate and not take offence. There are people on here who have been keeping snakes for a hell of a lot longer than me and I would never profess to know all there is to know about them.
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mrmagicpants
Snake Mite
United Kingdom
42 Posts |
Posted - 13/03/2014 : 19:04:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Drew81
Thank you very much Kellog
Whilst it's never fully possible to know what tone a message is written in, I like to think I'm pretty good at getting the point if it's written right. Everybody who has given me advice here has been very nice about it and I truly appreciate it. I also much rather people point out things if they think they need to rather than everyone just agreeing for the sake of it as that way nothing gets solved. For instance my original point in this thread was about my snake dying while in shed but the discussion led to heat mats after I had said which one mine was and noted the temps. People could very easily have overlooked that and not pointed it out and I would be carrying on thinking my heat mat is fine. Which we now know it isn't ideal but is at least safe enough in the interim.
If i'm willing enough to ask for advice then I am willing enough to listen to both advice and criticism where appropriate and not take offence. There are people on here who have been keeping snakes for a hell of a lot longer than me and I would never profess to know all there is to know about them.
Well said mate. This site is a gold mine of advice and help. |
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Kellog
the nice one
United Kingdom
7308 Posts |
Posted - 16/03/2014 : 08:43:37
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Wish there was a 'like' button on here because I'd definitely 'like' your last comment Drew  .
Xxx
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I think shedding killed my Corn Snake somehow.
