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Foobs
Snake Mite

United Kingdom
24 Posts

Posted - 01/12/2014 :  21:53:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've been trying to get my head around genetics and the resulting morphs, as the breeding aspect of corn snakes interests me (not that anything is going to happen for a few years yet!). So I thought I'd start with Drakos Parents to find out what was possible from his clutch.

The mother was a snow (a+b) and the father was a candycane motley(a+m). Neither have known hets, so I am assuming that they have none.

So does this mean that the following would have been in the clutch:
Candycane 25%
Snow 25%
Candycane motley 25%
Anery Motley 25%

If not can someone explain where I have gone wrong? Also what hets if any would I end up with?

Thanks
Foobs


1.0 Anery - Drako
1.0 Cocker Spaniel - Oscar
1.0.0 Tabby Cat - Oakley
8.20.10 Guppies
0.0.3 Ottos

gmac
The Scottish Admin

United Kingdom
5319 Posts

Posted - 01/12/2014 :  22:28:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
100% amel het anery motley.

Both parents must have a copy of each gene to produce visual morph


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gmac
The Scottish Admin

United Kingdom
5319 Posts

Posted - 01/12/2014 :  22:29:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Candycane is selectively bred so doubt any wod be candycane but never can tell


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Foobs
Snake Mite

United Kingdom
24 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2014 :  01:00:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That's confused me even more as Drako is an Anery visually. I think I might have got the parents around the wrong way, sorry. Does that make a difference?


1.0 Anery - Drako
1.0 Cocker Spaniel - Oscar
1.0.0 Tabby Cat - Oakley
8.20.10 Guppies
0.0.3 Ottos
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gmac
The Scottish Admin

United Kingdom
5319 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2014 :  11:51:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yup would have to be


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gmac
The Scottish Admin

United Kingdom
5319 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2014 :  11:51:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
All would be anery het amel then


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Donnie
Fully Grown Corn

United Kingdom
3215 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2014 :  20:21:48  Show Profile  Click to see Donnie's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Have a play on here http://www.corncalc.com/
It will show you what you get and all possible hets for a specific pairing

1.1 Corns (Anery Stripe, Amel) 1.0 Rootbeer 0.2 Jungle Carpet Python 1.0 Zebra Jungle Carpet Python 1.0 50% Diamond Zebra Carpet Python
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Razee
Fully Grown Corn

United Kingdom
2525 Posts

Posted - 03/12/2014 :  19:03:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If one parent was a snow ( amel and anery ), and one parent candycane motley ( genetically amel motley - candycane is just a variant of amel ) - but they have produced an anery hatchling ( your Drako ) - then the candycane motley must also be het for anery.

This is because for any recesive gene to show visually, the snake has to carry both copies of that gene. If he only caries one copy of that gene, and a normal copy, it won't actually show the trend, but if it then mates with another het, or visual, it can produce visual babies. So, the snow would have two copies of anery gene, and two copies of amel gene. The candy cane motley has two copies of amel gene, two copies of motley gene ( showing both traits ), but only one copy of anery gene, the other being normal - so not showing the anery trait, but carrying it genetically.

When they mated, your Drako received one copy of anery gene from the snow, and one copy of anery gene ( the het part ) from the candy cane - having two copies of anery, he is showing it. He will also be a het for amel, and het for motley.

ACTUALLY - WRONG! Just thought - the parents must be wrong - if you mate a snow to candy cane, he would have HAD TO receive the amel gene from both parents, too! So, he would have been a snow! They can't be his parents... :-0

0.1.0 late CB10 Carolina corn snake - Bazilishka
1.0.0 CB11 Abbots Okeetee- Little Twiddler
1.0.0 CB11 Hypo corn- Sebastianek
1.0.0. CB14 Butter Motley - Squidwood
0.0.2 CB18 normal/ Okeetee yearlings Bunny and Lalalishka
0.0.1 hognose
0.1.0 stable cat
0.1.0 house cat
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Foobs
Snake Mite

United Kingdom
24 Posts

Posted - 04/12/2014 :  01:12:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Razee you've just hit the nail on the head. I think that the breeder is either withholding something (i.e. hatchlings not bred by them?) or something else.

I've gone through two different calculators and added hets to each parent and the results I get are either visually Amel or a mixture of Amel and Snow hatchlings, regardless.

Anyway, thanks for confirming what I have just discovered about 30 minutes ago, you don't know how grateful I am. I have emailed the breeder with the same information, so watch this space for his response (if he doesn't just ignore me!).

This is really not helpful when you are trying to grasp a subject such as genetics and the results just don't add up...

I've read through the first section on genetics at http://cornguide.com/geneticspages.php, which is very good, along with a few other online resources (Ian's Vavarium, VMSherp and it's slowly sinking in ). Has anyone read the Genetics for Herpers from the same author and is it worth reading, or should I just stick to the information online?

Another calculator I found helpful in addition to the corncal website is http://www.reptilecalculator.com/corn-snake-morph-calculator

Foobs



1.0 Anery - Drako
1.0 Cocker Spaniel - Oscar
1.0.0 Tabby Cat - Oakley
8.20.10 Guppies
0.0.3 Ottos
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eeji
The Morph Master

United Kingdom
4335 Posts

Posted - 04/12/2014 :  19:25:36  Show Profile  Visit eeji's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I haven't read Genetics for Herpers, but I have heard its good (this was coming from someone who really knows their onions on the subject).

As well as using the calculators theres also a punnett square calculator on IV which can help you visualise the results a bit more than a list of outcomes.


Forum - Guide to Cornsnake Morphs - Punnett Square Calculator - Breeder Directory
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Foobs
Snake Mite

United Kingdom
24 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2014 :  04:00:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks eeji, I went for the book as it only cost about 4 for the digital version and it's cleared up a few questions I've had, so it's paid for itself already.

Back on the breeder issue. I've found out that the manager of the shop, who I've been discussing this with, is not the person who bred the corns (although he owned one of them). It has come to light that there may have been another female who is an Anery, which would explain everything and make Drako an Anery het Amel.


1.0 Anery - Drako
1.0 Cocker Spaniel - Oscar
1.0.0 Tabby Cat - Oakley
8.20.10 Guppies
0.0.3 Ottos
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