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btcc11
having a break...
United Kingdom
35 Posts |
 Posted - 29/08/2011 : 14:55:50
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quote:
1. I've never seen a captive snake be very good at ambush hunting frozen/thawed food. It simply doesn't move to near where the reptile is waiting in ambush.
2. the rodent is food, anyone who is stupid enough to put live food into a reptile viv for food and walks away is a plank.
3. I've eaten oysters, is that inhumane as well??
4. But our reptiles eat better, I see no problem there.
The rabbit in that vid is a rabbit bred specifically for reptile food. Surely the answer is simple, if you don't like the video or how it's titled then don't click the link.
People who do it for entertainment are planks and as such are breaking the law.
Unfortunately the amount of times that people go through lists of feeding live (or prekilled if you read any anti-exotic propaganda) makes no sense when those same people will happily go to mcdonalds for some foods.
I personally don't care where/how my rodents are killed to feed my snakes, my snakes need food so they get fed.
I need food, so I get fed. It's my choice on if I eat beef, pork, cat or snake. (Garfield is yummy btw)
1. Exactly so don't feed it live because captive snakes can't hunt.
2. So when it's attacking your snake your just going to put your hand in there take it out and then what? It could easily be solved by not feeding live.
3. Oysters have different nerves to rodents and cannot feel pain.
4. What do you mean they eat better? They're in captivity so they don't need to be fed live because you can give them pre-killed food I see no problem here, it's much more humane on both the animals. All I was saying was it isn't life and doesn't happen in the wild.
It clearly wasn't bred for reptile food, and it doesn't matter it was still put right in front of the snake not knowing to run or attack. Surely it would of been easier to have bought a dead rabbit and fed it to your snake instead of giving it a live rabbit and filming it for views on YouTube(Entertainment)
I don't go to McDonalds I only buy free range well looked after humanly killed meat.
Also on the killing for entertainment, how are you supposed to know if they are killing for entertainment? It's not like there is a way of telling.
Can you imagine a copper going up to someone who has just fed there snake live. "I just saw you feeding your snake live, did you do this for fun?"
Person- "Yes"
Cop- "You're getting a fine"
Nah I don't see that happening. |
The United Kingdom isn't a country! Add England fool! |
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btcc11
having a break...
United Kingdom
35 Posts |
Posted - 29/08/2011 : 14:58:56
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Also to the guy saying they hunt in the wild so should we go out and stop them all.
Obviously not that is hunting in the wild putting a rodent inside a viv is completely different.
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The United Kingdom isn't a country! Add England fool! |
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tordyjo
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
2036 Posts |
Posted - 29/08/2011 : 18:45:01
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| i feed f/t mice however if it came to it and was the only way my snake would feed was to give live i would do it. I think its one thing having an opinion or view and expressing it and having a healthy debate, but these views should not be forced onto others |
 Lilly Crystal Harry
1.2.0 corns, 1.1.0 cats tropical guppies who continually breed
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mikerichards
don't say the 'M' word!
United Kingdom
2901 Posts |
Posted - 29/08/2011 : 20:30:42
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Captive bred snakes are exceptional hunters, just like wild ones, they are more than capable of catching and killing live mice in their viv, just because they dont go mental over a d/f doesnt mean it will get soppy over a live.
Live feeding is not considered to be cruel, however, its not allowed for fun.
No, coppers wont get all funny over live feeding, the rspca will try to though. |
Location : Worthing, West Sussex
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btcc11
having a break...
United Kingdom
35 Posts |
Posted - 29/08/2011 : 21:05:32
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| I know, you said they cant hunt though. And you didn't answer the rest of my points. |
The United Kingdom isn't a country! Add England fool! |
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gingerpony
Queen Bee
United Kingdom
10455 Posts |
Posted - 29/08/2011 : 22:58:17
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| some of my captive bred snakes are pretty damn good at hunting down and despatching their live prey........... |
cornsnakes, ratsnakes, bullsnakes, boas and day geckos
Location:Leeds/York/Selby area |
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btcc11
having a break...
United Kingdom
35 Posts |
Posted - 29/08/2011 : 23:00:03
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| Maybe answer the rest of my points? |
The United Kingdom isn't a country! Add England fool! |
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Kehhlyr
ǝʞɐɔ sǝʌoן
United Kingdom
8173 Posts |
Posted - 30/08/2011 : 01:43:11
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quote:
Originally posted by btcc11
Also to the guy saying they hunt in the wild so should we go out and stop them all.
Obviously not that is hunting in the wild putting a rodent inside a viv is completely different.
Are you actually questioning ANYTHING that is relevant to this thread or are you simply trying to start an argument??
If you have quibbles with feeding snakes in a cage as it's "unnatural" then why do you bother having one?
Now lets keep this thread on topic, or stop posting on it.
-=K |
-=Kehhlyr - The Resident Loon
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btcc11
having a break...
United Kingdom
35 Posts |
Posted - 30/08/2011 : 02:36:05
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| We're talking about live feeding that is on topic, please shush if you don't know what on or off topic is. |
The United Kingdom isn't a country! Add England fool! |
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gmac
The Scottish Admin
United Kingdom
5319 Posts |
Posted - 30/08/2011 : 02:43:00
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there is no point in answering your other points if they snake will only take live, do you maybe suggest letting a mouse go in the garden and let the snake go hunt it.
Where else do you suggest the mouse is put then when the snake will only take live. |
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Kehhlyr
ǝʞɐɔ sǝʌoן
United Kingdom
8173 Posts |
Posted - 30/08/2011 : 02:47:28
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quote:
Originally posted by btcc11
We're talking about live feeding that is on topic, please shush if you don't know what on or off topic is.
DO NOT tell people to shush when:
- You are wrong
- they are a member of the admin/moderator team
- you are being given an instruction from people in the above categories
These things will result in warnings and a ban.
Your statements/questions (I'm not even sure what they were to be honest) were not a live feeding discussion, they were seemingly argumentative.
Sort it out, or go elsewhere |
-=Kehhlyr - The Resident Loon
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mikerichards
don't say the 'M' word!
United Kingdom
2901 Posts |
Posted - 30/08/2011 : 11:16:39
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quote:
Originally posted by btcc11
People say it's right because it's life and happens in the wild.
Yes that's true it happens in the wild but putting it in a snakes environment isn't natural and these are the reasons why.
1.Most snakes including corns are ambush hunters so if the rodent is put in it's tank it's not natural hunting.
2.The rodent has nowhere to go so it's only choice is to fight(They can hurt the snake badly)
3.It's inhumane on the rodent whereas the pre-killed rodents are killed more humane(at least in the UK they are)
4.Lastly it isn't life/natural because in the wild they have a chance to escape in essentially a cage they don't.
Not natural on either animals, cruel even.
Also thoughts on people who do it for a laugh/entertainment?
You want answers to your questions, despite already having some i will add mine too.
1. Yes corns are ambush hunters, they are also excellent trackers, they take what comes along, if they are hungry they wont just sit there and hope something is gonna trot by. Its not about natural hunting with live feeding, its either about some tool getting his kicks, or its about getting a snake to feed, which funnily enough works because it kicks their natural hunting instincts.
2. Thats the whole point, it has no where to go, it gives the snake the best chance, which, funnily enough is the whole point, read point 1. Yes they can hurt the snake, which is why its supervised at all times, you would have to be an utter moron to leave the snake alone with live prey. Incidentally, sub adult mice are unlikely to bite through the scales on the snake, they barely break my skin. Rats are a whole different ball game, but if you are putting a rat in with a corn that can do serious damage, then you are feeding your snake the wrong food, and are a moron.
3. Humane??? they are being treated better than they would be in the wild!!! All my mice (i have lots) are well fed, always have water, always have a clean bed, get treats and are well looked after, animals i have that are sick or hurt themselves die quickly instead of a long drawn out suffering death. Do you have any idea how long it takes for a snake to kill a mouse??? Small rodents rib cages are very very soft, they squeeze down to more or less nothing, and thats what the snake takes advantage of, their death is very quick, albeit not as quick as being banged on the head, but even so, its seconds, not minutes as people assume. I have fed live on a number of occasions, and i can assure you, this is the case every time i have done it, even with rabbits its the same, its very quick.
You think a snake gets scared because there is a mouse wandering around its house???? my lot go crazy for fresh kill, they go all primal and on alert, there is no fear there.
4. Again, thats the point, its about getting a snake feeding, not about giving the mouse a way out, read points 1 and 2.
there is nothing cruel to the snake, or even the mouse really, yes it induces a small amount of suffering, but so does nearly everything we do, whether we realise or not, infact, us humans are far worse for creating suffering than any animal. It has been proved many times that animals are the most efficient killers, and they are generally not wasteful either, they eat what they kill, not like us, we kill everything, and little of it is actually consumed.
Live feeding is a necessity, there is absolutely nothing you can say to prove otherwise, you are just creating an arguement with no hope of winning it, which is pointless.
I look forward to your ill informed reply, just be careful not to hit your keyboard too hard! |
Location : Worthing, West Sussex
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mikerichards
don't say the 'M' word!
United Kingdom
2901 Posts |
Posted - 30/08/2011 : 11:21:26
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Originally posted by kelfezond
If live mice were easily accessible and it was fully legal in the UK then I'd switch to live feeding tomorrow. Would be so, so much easier.
It is fully legal, just as long as you dont invite your mates round and crack open the popcorn. I agree wholly, live feeding is so much easier, and a lot less wasteful, you have a snake not feed, you put the mouse back in his house.
I breed my own mice, on a fairly small scale, but it saves me a good 20 or 30 quid a month, as soon as i get my man shed, i will have many more mice, not bothering with rats though, they eat shed loads!!!!! |
Location : Worthing, West Sussex
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Mamma
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
4494 Posts |
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Mamma
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
4494 Posts |
Posted - 30/08/2011 : 11:44:18
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quote:
Originally posted by mikerichards
quote:
Originally posted by kelfezond
If live mice were easily accessible and it was fully legal in the UK then I'd switch to live feeding tomorrow. Would be so, so much easier.
It is fully legal, just as long as you dont invite your mates round and crack open the popcorn. I agree wholly, live feeding is so much easier, and a lot less wasteful, you have a snake not feed, you put the mouse back in his house.
I breed my own mice, on a fairly small scale, but it saves me a good 20 or 30 quid a month, as soon as i get my man shed, i will have many more mice, not bothering with rats though, they eat shed loads!!!!!
This made me giggle!  |
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gingerpony
Queen Bee
United Kingdom
10455 Posts |
Posted - 30/08/2011 : 14:04:10
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debating is great
i don't mind at all if people prefer not to live feed, everyone has their own opinion just don't force yours onto me, and don't go spouting rubbish, true facts yes, bull-twaddle no, as you can see it's not really tolerated on here
and actually, keeping/breeding the mice is a bit of a pain, it's so much easier to buy frozen and keep them in the freezer........no cleaning out, feeding, watering, etc then there's the time spent supervising the live feed itself when it's so much quicker to drop in a f/t mouse and leave it..........
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cornsnakes, ratsnakes, bullsnakes, boas and day geckos
Location:Leeds/York/Selby area |
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btcc11
having a break...
United Kingdom
35 Posts |
Posted - 30/08/2011 : 15:37:09
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Okay let me re do this all, much more simple so you can get it.
Yes feeding a snake is morally RIGHT but if there is no need why bother?
The mouse will have less stress by being killed more humanly and it's more humane on the snake.
I SAID IT IS RIGHT IF IT WON'T EAT ANYTHING ELSE as well. |
The United Kingdom isn't a country! Add England fool! |
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Mamma
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
4494 Posts |
Posted - 30/08/2011 : 16:31:09
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quote:
Originally posted by btcc11
Okay let me re do this all, much more simple so you can get it.
Yes feeding a snake is morally RIGHT but if there is no need why bother?
The mouse will have less stress by being killed more humanly and it's more humane on the snake.
I SAID IT IS RIGHT IF IT WON'T EAT ANYTHING ELSE as well.
Well thank you for edumacating me in a simple way. You have made me more intemalectual now  |
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gingerpony
Queen Bee
United Kingdom
10455 Posts |
Posted - 30/08/2011 : 18:02:41
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quote:
Originally posted by btcc11
Okay let me re do this all, much more simple so you can get it.
Yes feeding a snake is morally RIGHT but if there is no need why bother?
The mouse will have less stress by being killed more humanly and it's more humane on the snake.
I SAID IT IS RIGHT IF IT WON'T EAT ANYTHING ELSE as well.
hey there's half a dozen pages on this thread, i've had people telling me on here there's absolutely no justification in live feeding, which to me shows their inexperience and blinkered view on snake-keeping.
i wasn't at all pointing the finger at you but hey, if the cap fits........
i'm intreagued why live feeding is less humane on the snake though? maybe you could clarify what you mean, politely, as there's nice couple of lines under your username....... |
cornsnakes, ratsnakes, bullsnakes, boas and day geckos
Location:Leeds/York/Selby area |
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btcc11
having a break...
United Kingdom
35 Posts |
Posted - 30/08/2011 : 23:19:13
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| Well, the rodent especially if it's large may harm your snake also may have parasites and even if you do supervise it the rodent could scratch your snake in the blink of an eye. |
The United Kingdom isn't a country! Add England fool! |
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Live feeding.
